JLU episode 'Ancient History' Sucks
I make no secret that I am not a fan of Geoff Johns. The man has had many unjustified claims given to him. One of the biggest titles being 'Saved Hawk Continuity' in comics. But lets not get too far out of the way
The Premise: Shadow Thief seeks to make John Stewart, Carter Hall, and Shayera Hol pay for past crimes in the ancient past. Oh, and everyone lived in Egypt back in ancient times.
The Faults: Everyone lived in Egypt Back in Ancient Times. Seriously. John Stewart was the captain of the Egyptian guards. This part of the story seems pretentious, and tries to be the reason of how John could be in love with Shayera.
I don't like the reincarnation plotline much at all. The first Hawkman episode 'Shadow of the Hawk' opened up the possibility that Carter Hall simply was a man that went insane into thinking he was Kator Hol reincarnated after touching a piece of Thanagarian technology. Not a great answer, and 'SOTH' had some continuity flubs of its own, but it was new, different. All 'Ancient History' did was validate Carter Hall's seemlingly obsessive behavior and cop out with "Yes, it is like comic book's Hawkman history".
But it isn't totally alike. Shadow Thief is revealed to be Carter Hall's darker half, given form after Carter first touched the Omnitron. And Shadow Thief merely acted a villian for Carter's benefit. "You wanted to be a superhero, so I became a villian" was the line given. Hmm, a hero who's darker half is given dark based powers and acts as a villian to give the hero someone to fight. Where have I seen this before?
Ya know, Geoff, if you don't want people to know what you're ripping off, I suggest you pick a source material at LEAST a month old.
In the end of the episode, Hawkman rejects Shadow Thief's pleas to kill John, and reabsorbs him. Vixen played little more than a bit part, and John's declaration to continue his relationship with Vixen only makes me feel sorry for Vixen, seeing as she's only picked as John's way to spite destiny.
The Premise: Shadow Thief seeks to make John Stewart, Carter Hall, and Shayera Hol pay for past crimes in the ancient past. Oh, and everyone lived in Egypt back in ancient times.
The Faults: Everyone lived in Egypt Back in Ancient Times. Seriously. John Stewart was the captain of the Egyptian guards. This part of the story seems pretentious, and tries to be the reason of how John could be in love with Shayera.
I don't like the reincarnation plotline much at all. The first Hawkman episode 'Shadow of the Hawk' opened up the possibility that Carter Hall simply was a man that went insane into thinking he was Kator Hol reincarnated after touching a piece of Thanagarian technology. Not a great answer, and 'SOTH' had some continuity flubs of its own, but it was new, different. All 'Ancient History' did was validate Carter Hall's seemlingly obsessive behavior and cop out with "Yes, it is like comic book's Hawkman history".
But it isn't totally alike. Shadow Thief is revealed to be Carter Hall's darker half, given form after Carter first touched the Omnitron. And Shadow Thief merely acted a villian for Carter's benefit. "You wanted to be a superhero, so I became a villian" was the line given. Hmm, a hero who's darker half is given dark based powers and acts as a villian to give the hero someone to fight. Where have I seen this before?
Ya know, Geoff, if you don't want people to know what you're ripping off, I suggest you pick a source material at LEAST a month old.
In the end of the episode, Hawkman rejects Shadow Thief's pleas to kill John, and reabsorbs him. Vixen played little more than a bit part, and John's declaration to continue his relationship with Vixen only makes me feel sorry for Vixen, seeing as she's only picked as John's way to spite destiny.
posted by ComicToonsThatSuck at 7:37 PM
14 Comments:
You know what *really* sucks?
You using the same "That was already done before!" argument like it's something bad. I'm pretty sure I've already seen that done before, but where?
...
...crap, I can't put images into here. But I'll say this:
SIMPSONS DID IT!
So what if they ripped off The Sentry? The Sentry stole that same plot from Fight Club, and they stole it from that episode of Batman where Two-Face dresses up like a judge. It's not a ripoff, it's just a common storytelling device.
Stop using it as an argument right now. You're only making yourself look bad.
Anyway, so what if John was the reincarnation/descendant of some egyptian guy? That shit happens, and it would have been pointless not to have him be involved in the prehistoric love triangle seeing as he's in the current one.
And "Ancient History" never actually said that any of them are reincarnations. Carter Hall DID just turn crazy. Seriously, he didn't just get another personality, his other personality formed a separate, physical being. How crazy do you need to get?
I'm just mad that it was so boring I fell to sleep on it.
It was alright, but more for what it showed than how it showed it.
Y'know, I was actually kind of hoping the Shadow Thief *was* the old Egyptian foreman.
"Millenia ago you gave me a command. And I still obey."
If he was, then there wouldn't be ripping off of 'The Sentry'.
And also, if he was, you'd use it to decry the reincarnation thing.
You know, there's an entire other reason to hate this particular ep:
It more or less puts the bullet in the brain of the John/Shayera romance.
That, alone, is reason enough for disgust.
Now, OTOH, a better question: Who here hates Bruce Timm?? I doubt anyone answers 'me,' because I'm fairly certain everyone here puts down the horrible quality decline to terminal executive meddling.
-Metaphysician
As opposed to the Murakami material, which always sucked.
You know, this episode leaves just as much ambiguity as to the reincarnation/false memories thing as the last one, right? The whole flashback happens after John, Shayera, and Carter touch the malfunctioning doodad. The explanation that it's still just malfunctioning and feeding anyone who touches it the stored history files works just as well here -- it simply drops Shayera into the role of the old, dead Thanagarian and John into the role of the captain she had her affair with.
"It more or less puts the bullet in the brain of the John/Shayera romance."
Actually, Metaphysician, that's still on. They do eventually get together and have Warhawk, who isn't even in his 30's by the time of Batman Beyond.
Your taking BB as definitive canon? Shame on you.
Even if you did, that doesn't make John/Shayera still on; that adds an additional complication for it *not* being active.
BB is definative canon. Dwayne McDuffie said so.
"this episode places Batman Beyond firmly into continuity about five different ways. […] Here’s one: Chronos made a time machine and before changing history used it to go from his time (Batman Beyond’s future) to our Batman’s present (the Justice League’s Watchtower)."
"As Warhawk was born to Shayera Hol and John Stewart before Chronos ever polluted the timestream, that future is intact."
Both of these quotes can be found at Dwayne McDuffie.com
Don't watch TV much. But John's Hawkman was really pretty good. ('An I'm generally not a fan of his work.)
But Parasite was killed, on screen, in the second to last JLU ep, and Parasite appeared, alive, in the future, in 'Epilogue'.
Bruce Timm still says its up to fans individual interpretations of the canonocity of Batman Beyond, so I'm going with Timm.
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